Josh, you son of a gun! I had dibs on your first time.... podcasting! Lol I'm so glad you finally got up and let us hear your voice.
Man this was cool, please do remember you've always a place on WW to brag and boast and show off your greatness buddy.
As to Phisto and Alexandru, you guys may have robbed me of a guest but someday I'll have my revenge by slipping into your podcast and ruining the whole thing by acting like an idiot... okay a bigger idiot. lmao In all honesty great show keep it up!
I think the way we rectify this is convincing Alex and Phisto to get you on here at some point. You've been making lots of moves in fantasy fiction on Substack between our work Warrior Wednesday/Sword & Saturday, your numerous essays, and the what, five or six books you're working on? I'm not even sure how many anymore lol.
Gents, get Joe and Dan on your show sometime, PLEASE. I think that would be a superb discussion between the four of you.
Wonderful discussion, as usual, and I don't say that just because Josh and I became fast friends these last couple years. That's only about 27% of the reason.
Seriously, though, this was a great talk. I know you've touched on it before, Alex, (you even say as much in this episode) but I'm on board with you in terms of the idea that the best fantasy fiction needs to say something, and currently we have a surplus of new fantasy which has very little to say, if anything at all. If we fantasy writers and authors of today want stories that are going to last, we need to tell stories worth remembering and which resonate with the cultures we come from.
Yeah, I'm behind on my podcast listening, so I just got to this. But fun episode guys!
I recently re-read LotR, and it was directly after reading Tolkien's translations of Gawain, Sir Orfeo, and Pearl. So I was immediately struck by how much the prose and the plot followed the medieval epic and poetry, in a way that I hadn't ever appreciated that. We don't have that depth in America, so finding it and developing it will take time.
In other words - I don't think that you can have a Tolkien fantasy until you have a Beowulf epic of the American style. Where are our Dantes? Our Virgils?
And this is what I keep getting back to. The American myth, if you follow the enlightenment doctrine, simply isn't anything special. We came, we persevered some weather, dumped some tea, treated some Indians like Rubes, and pulled wool over the eyes of the Indians and Catholic missions as we expanded west.
Yet, if you really Christianize it, and abandon the whole Enlightenment dogma, it can take on a whole new ballgame. It can be one of the prodigal son, gone into a pagan land, spending all his inheritance, and coming back. You look around us, and the pigsty is there. The calling is there.
And the West needs it's son to stop messing around in the filth.
Anyways, Jim Butcher does a good job of modern fantasy with American tropes. There's a few others in that vein, but he's the most popular that comes to mind. Malazan Books of the Fallen is a good epic fantasy series you should check out that I think you guys would like. Much better written than GoT or WoT; it's also FINISHED, which helps a great deal. Some books of it, you're wondering "Where does this fit into the series?" but you just have to trust - it does fit, and it all comes around in the end.
Thanks very much for the kind words! Is Malazan the Steven Erikson series? If so, I bought the first book over the summer, but haven't read it yet.
Josh, you son of a gun! I had dibs on your first time.... podcasting! Lol I'm so glad you finally got up and let us hear your voice.
Man this was cool, please do remember you've always a place on WW to brag and boast and show off your greatness buddy.
As to Phisto and Alexandru, you guys may have robbed me of a guest but someday I'll have my revenge by slipping into your podcast and ruining the whole thing by acting like an idiot... okay a bigger idiot. lmao In all honesty great show keep it up!
I think the way we rectify this is convincing Alex and Phisto to get you on here at some point. You've been making lots of moves in fantasy fiction on Substack between our work Warrior Wednesday/Sword & Saturday, your numerous essays, and the what, five or six books you're working on? I'm not even sure how many anymore lol.
Gents, get Joe and Dan on your show sometime, PLEASE. I think that would be a superb discussion between the four of you.
I used to write a lot of fantasy fiction, but I decided to become unsaleable and write literary stuff.
Merci or Josh on our show. Lol
Well, well! My man Josh came to pay you lads a visit, eh? Perfect! This is just the thing I need to get through the end of this dreadful work day.
Wonderful discussion, as usual, and I don't say that just because Josh and I became fast friends these last couple years. That's only about 27% of the reason.
Seriously, though, this was a great talk. I know you've touched on it before, Alex, (you even say as much in this episode) but I'm on board with you in terms of the idea that the best fantasy fiction needs to say something, and currently we have a surplus of new fantasy which has very little to say, if anything at all. If we fantasy writers and authors of today want stories that are going to last, we need to tell stories worth remembering and which resonate with the cultures we come from.
One thing I would've liked to discuss if we had more time is how my stories are an attempt to push back against modern fantasy's nihilistic bent.
Yeah, I'm behind on my podcast listening, so I just got to this. But fun episode guys!
I recently re-read LotR, and it was directly after reading Tolkien's translations of Gawain, Sir Orfeo, and Pearl. So I was immediately struck by how much the prose and the plot followed the medieval epic and poetry, in a way that I hadn't ever appreciated that. We don't have that depth in America, so finding it and developing it will take time.
In other words - I don't think that you can have a Tolkien fantasy until you have a Beowulf epic of the American style. Where are our Dantes? Our Virgils?
And this is what I keep getting back to. The American myth, if you follow the enlightenment doctrine, simply isn't anything special. We came, we persevered some weather, dumped some tea, treated some Indians like Rubes, and pulled wool over the eyes of the Indians and Catholic missions as we expanded west.
Yet, if you really Christianize it, and abandon the whole Enlightenment dogma, it can take on a whole new ballgame. It can be one of the prodigal son, gone into a pagan land, spending all his inheritance, and coming back. You look around us, and the pigsty is there. The calling is there.
And the West needs it's son to stop messing around in the filth.
Anyways, Jim Butcher does a good job of modern fantasy with American tropes. There's a few others in that vein, but he's the most popular that comes to mind. Malazan Books of the Fallen is a good epic fantasy series you should check out that I think you guys would like. Much better written than GoT or WoT; it's also FINISHED, which helps a great deal. Some books of it, you're wondering "Where does this fit into the series?" but you just have to trust - it does fit, and it all comes around in the end.